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[personal profile] waywardcats
Yesterday I read this post from [livejournal.com profile] dolphin_girl which I found to be very thoughtful and educational.

Today I read this reply from [livejournal.com profile] kuangning  and it breaks my heart.  This is why I keep reading.

[livejournal.com profile] kuangning
  is right.  No one should have to cry or yell to make themselves heard, or believed.  No one.



ETC: username


Date: 2009-03-12 08:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tenwii.livejournal.com
Hi,

I am only marginally aware of the discussions you are referring to. But..I agree whole-heartedly with hegira, and thank you for posting this.

If someone says "that offends me" then they are offended. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean it that way, THEIR response is the measure. So stop whatever you're doing and believe that. End of story. There's no such thing as "you're too sensitive". No, 'you're not sensitive enough'. My emotions are, and I don't need to reveal them to you utterly for them to be *real*.

As a woman in a male field, I constantly run into this "I didn't know it upset you that much" deal. Because my saying "that is not cool with me" was not enough. I didn't posture or instigate a fight or whatnot. Heaven knows crying is out of the question --- then I'd really be in trouble.

I'm distressed too. Thanks for posting, and hullo to your kitties.

Date: 2009-03-12 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] waywardcats.livejournal.com
If someone says "that offends me" then they are offended. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean it that way, THEIR response is the measure. So stop whatever you're doing and believe that. End of story. There's no such thing as "you're too sensitive". No, 'you're not sensitive enough'. My emotions are, and I don't need to reveal them to you utterly for them to be *real*.

This is exactly right. I think every woman has probably experienced this phenomenon if not with a male partner or colleague then almost certainly with a doctor (male or female). It presses my buttons too, though certainly not as hard as that post did for hegira.

My distress comes partly from not seeing how the original post might get under someones skin. Just more of my cluelessness, which I do want to fix.

Thanks for reading. Has Bastard Squirrel finally left you alone?

Date: 2009-03-13 05:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wild-irises.livejournal.com
I completely take [livejournal.com profile] kuangning's point, and I am far too well-mannered to drop into her LJ and engage with her on the place where I think her point is incomplete, so I'll say it here.

No one should have to yell to be heard. Yes. Absolutely.

Also true: some people want/need/are dying to yell. For some people, yelling increases pain. For others, it relieves it. For most of us, both things are true at various times, in various situations, depending on who is yelling, etc., etc.

"Yelling class" is not just about PoC (or any oppressed group) being forced to yell to be heard. It's also about people getting the opportunity to yell, to say what they think in an uncensored (or relatively uncensored) way, to have their anger accepted along with their pain.

If no one wanted/needed to yell, could RaceFail have gone the way it did for as long as it did?

Date: 2009-03-13 06:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] waywardcats.livejournal.com
"Yelling class" is not just about PoC (or any oppressed group) being forced to yell to be heard. It's also about people getting the opportunity to yell, to say what they think in an uncensored (or relatively uncensored) way, to have their anger accepted along with their pain.

If no one wanted/needed to yell, could RaceFail have gone the way it did for as long as it did?


If I understand it correctly "Yelling class" is also largely about having a safe space in which to be uncensored. I agree with you that some people do need the release of long-repressed anger that has come out during RaceFail. And I hope that in the end, safe places are created for those who need that release.

I don't disagree with you at all. Some people do need to yell and I am sure some people are feeling a release from yelling/crying. It is also true that many people do not like to show their emotions so raw. What I keep coming back to and the reason I try to keep engaging is that some of those people have been driven to show raw emotion that they normally would need to hide. If I choose not to listen to that pain, and act upon it then they are hurting for nothing.

Because it feels awful when you say you are hurt and someone does not believe you, but it feels worse when you cry and they do not care.

Date: 2009-03-13 07:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maryread.livejournal.com
Thanks for this link.

"Yelling Class" was an interesting post to me but it sounded pretty awful, and I would have been one of those quiet people who took it in as something we have to sit through as part of the degree certification program. Long ago, I was a student teacher. Got out of teaching before I could replicate any more of my own traumas, this time as the person in the front of the room. Because I could see that much.

Date: 2009-03-13 09:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] waywardcats.livejournal.com
You're welcome.

Yes, it sounds pretty awful to me too, and I am not sure a good outcome would make it any easier. Good for you for knowing your limits and not taking on teaching if it was going to cause you trauma.

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